My ambition was to be captain – Major-Gen. David Jemibewon (rtd)

The phrase “old soldiers never die” seems to apply aptly to Major-General David Jemibewon. He has been around for 85 years, spent 21 of those years in the army from 1962 to 1983, and held various command positions, including Adjutant General of the Nigerian Army. His other military appointments included being the Governor of the Western State, which later became the old Oyo State, in 1976. After retiring from the army, he became a lawyer and a politician, a member of the Board of Trustees (BoT) of the PDP and Minister of Police Affairs. On the softer side, he was the president of the Nigerian Olympic Commission. The general is still much around in his Ikoyi Lagos home.

You are from Kogi State but started schooling in Burutu, Delta State. How did that come about?

I think I have introduced you to my daughter, the only one here, out of the lot.

Yes,  I will hear about the others during the interview.

Back to your question. From our development in this part of the world, we do not have the type of enterprises that take us from one place to another very often.

What happened was that my father’s immediate younger brother was in Burutu working for UAC. UAC many years ago was virtually synonymous with Nigeria. So, as the country developed, they also developed enterprises, trade and transportation.

So, my uncle worked in the engineering department of UAC. When he saw that I was growing up, he talked to my dad about whether he could take me away. And so that’s how it came to me being in Burutu.

How long did you stay in that part of Nigeria?

Honestly, I wouldn’t know. But that is where I started school.

And then you went home and finished your primary school?

In fact (now I recall) I did not stay more than two years in Burutu before I went back home because I was sick. A lot of discussions must have gone on, you know, the need for me to be close to my parents so that I might be well. But one can be sick anywhere. But I have an idea of when I left the place.

Can you tell us more about your early schooling?

When I left my village, there was no school there. When I got to Burutu, I’m not too sure what their programme was: whether school or housekeeping. Schooling was not the main objective for them. But as time went on, it was necessary they should send me to school. So, I went to school.

In Burutu in those days, or in Nigeria maybe, you started school and you spent almost three years before getting to primary one.

I can’t say exactly, because I didn’t know how to write. I didn’t know how to read. What was more prominent around Delta in those days was the ability to speak broken English. So, I was fluent in broken English through time.

What they now call Warri English?

Yes, of course.

When you came back to Kogi, to Ijumo, which is your local government area, did you finish your schooling there?

It’s like not going back to school. It’s like starting all over again. I can say I wasn’t that brilliant such that I could just take that leap from not going through some classes, before getting to primary one, because in those days you had class A, class B, class C and so on. So, that’s the way it was.

So, I started afresh, and in any case, you may wonder how teachers were able to pass instructions when it’s only English and you don’t understand English. They didn’t understand your language either.

But you managed to finish school and were in the Lagos School of Radiography? Why did you choose to do that?

It wasn’t as straight as you said it. My going to school and later ending up in Lagos did not reflect the level of education or the system of education, because in Burutu, what we spoke in those days was broken English, quite different from the Standard English, but somehow it was of great help. And so the people at home thought I must be up there.

Because you spoke English?

Yes. So, they expected me to do certain things. It was later I sat down to imagine why they were asking me to do certain things. They assumed I would be above the level of the vast majority of the class.

When you finished secondary school you came to Lagos. What gave you that opportunity to come  and study radiography?

It was the political situation in Nigeria.

This was in 1960?

Yes. From the part of the country I come from. And so, wherever one was from, they wanted to assign you to where you came from.

So, there was a quota system where they allocated…?

No, no, no. There was no quota at that time. But I’m trying to tell you that I could not have been counted as being from Delta because I’m not from Delta.

Yeah, but you came to Lagos to study?

Yes. But, if we don’t take time, it surely wouldn’t follow a sequence because there was time lag between some of the things happening. And, that’s what the situation was.

How come you went into the military?

I finished primary school and enrolled in the army. And, on passing out, I had to go to a section in which I thought I had the greatest interest – infantry. And from soldiering, I decided I wanted to join the officer corps.

Also, because I like active life, I’m not given to sedentary occupations. I thought one of the best places I could enjoy my being, my development and progress, was in the military.

But why did you choose infantry rather than artillery or some others?

In the army, or in the armed forces, whatever branch you name it, Air Force or Army , if you join and you are lucky, you are taken, you mention which branch you want to start. And in some cases, you may have an opportunity of being allowed to make a choice, one, two, three out of which one will be taken and then you make the best of it.  So, this was what happened.

Interestingly, it was not the first exam of the military that I took that I got into the military. I took the exam twice before I succeeded in getting in.

You went to do many courses abroad, because, as you said, you went to the officer corps which required training, especially in England. Can you share with us your experience of England in those days?

Actually, I’d never travelled beyond Lagos. In my class from Nigeria, we had about 20 something. They put us into different categories. Some of my colleagues, thank God, are alive.

Was it a strange experience coming from here and finding yourself in England for the first time?

Of course.

Did you like it or was it difficult?

Anyway, you are asking questions. If I didn’t like it, how did I become a general?

England is strange; it’s cold. So, the experience sometimes can be difficult?

You are right. But if a man is determined and he believes in the subject matter of his determination, he has to bear it because of the determination. So, I had no regrets, even till today, I have no regrets.

You were an instructor in the School of Infantry, a GOC and Adjutant General.What part of your career in the military do you think is the height of your achievement?

The military is so organised that it follows a pattern. And as you progress, it’s also a reflection of your performance, how you are doing in the organisation.

So, I must say that I feel satisfied that I did my best. And the fact that based on the promotions I had and the responsibilities given to me to discharge my duties, it seems that to me that the leaders or those who were leaders over me appreciated my contributions. It’s difficult to say one liked one particular office more than the other.

Let me ask you about the specific and unusual office of being governor. It is not every soldier or every officer that is taken or given that job. Why do you think you were given the assignment of being Governor of the Western State in 1976?

Number one, appointment into political office is based on observation of your superiors as to the way you handle responsibility, other than that, there is no way by which you can be adjudged good or efficient except you have been tried.

And being a military officer, political duty is not what you try every day, every month, because it is outside the duties of the military. It is under abnormal situation that we find the military in government.

But were you surprised that you were called upon to serve in that political post?

I want to believe it won’t be me alone. I think a lot more will be surprised. I want to believe for me going to perform a political position or office while still in the army was not in my contemplation when I joined the army.

But whatever job you are given to do, do it right and do it well. And of course if there are people who are observing you and need to take note, they will. And in any case, my view is that if you are given any job to do, do it well not minding whether people are looking or not.

But how did you cope, as being a governor meant pressure dealing with the Oba’s and whoever were power brokers in the state?

I’m trying as much as possible to answer your questions but some of them really will have more bases to think of failure, because if you are not good in the first place you ought not to be an officer.

But still, sir I’m saying politics is politics. An officer in the barracks is different from a governor in a government house dealing with the rest of society?

You are correct, but I’m now telling you that, you know once you are given an appointment, you can only be just in respect of your performance and ability on the outcome of the performance in that office.

I mean I just happened to be called upon and made a governor. You don’t need to ask anybody why and so on. What you do there is to try and do your best, and when you get there, you can still be removed. They can appoint you in the morning and by evening you are removed.

But you lasted two years?

I think it’s more than two years, because it was not in one position.

It was two states; I mean Western State and then old Oyo State. Also, you were adjutant general of the army before you retired in 1983.

Yes

Was the retirement not too early? Did you choose to go by yourself?

I chose to leave myself.

Why so early?

Of course one may ask why did I join the army in the first place, and it was so early. I was young, how could I retire early?

The point is that there are certainly some people, I am not saying I belong to that group, but there are some people that have a vision for themselves and the vision for the life they want to live. I didn’t want to go beyond captain.

I made it made it known to myself because in those days the highest rank in the Nigerian Army (NA) was captain.

When you joined in 1960?

Yes. Not only that, I liked the way captains dress; even up to today. I mean when you see a young man with three stars. What the general wears, you have to ask, “What is that?”

When you start in the military as an officer, you start with the second lieutenant with one star. So, that star itself is big and contains a big meaning. And then, of course, beyond that, captain, three stars.

And the level of the development in the army at that time, I’m not too sure too many people would have looked to the future and wanted to be anything too far above captain.

So, you wanted to be a captain, but you found yourself a general?

Of course I ended up a general. I’m sure I could not have been the only one for over a long period. But my ultimate objective was that I wanted to be a captain before I left the army.

Now, is your early retirement related to the fact that you wanted to have a second career after the army? As it turned out, you went to law school and became a lawyer?

It’s more than that. It’s a long process. I don’t think my thoughts went along that line.

But that’s what happened?

Yeah, but what actually happened was that I knew that the country was such that the army we had, with time, the top would get crowded. And so not everybody could in fact go beyond that captain. Maybe some people might not have thought about it. But I thought about it.

And why I particularly liked the army at that time was that it didn’t allow for lazy people. You were always on the move; active. I think up to now I’m still fairly active. So, that is it, I don’t know if you want to follow it up.

No. What I want to follow up is why did you choose to go and study law?

I wanted to be a lawyer even before I went into the army. And so, my second choice was that I could go and study law.

And also, I did not like sitting down in one place for too long. But with time, I knew I would get to somewhere where there was no way to move forward.

Was it difficult going back to be a student? Or how did you adjust to being a student?

Incidentally, I didn’t stay in the campus. But, really, there’s no difficulty at all. You can still go to the university, even at this age. It depends on your mind.

I don’t want to use the word black man. But usually, it’s only in underdeveloped areas that people carry the weight of their office on their head.

In some parts of the world, general manager, honourable minister, engineer, etc, after retirement, they end up in one institution or the other. We are developing in that manner in Nigeria gradually. And so we have the NIPSS.

Indeed you were a foundation member of NIPSS?

I was a foundation member.

Was it a good experience?

Of course.

Did you practice law after studying it as a degree and a second degree?

Of course. You see, law is an interesting subject. It is just that you don’t mind if I ask you a question?

No.

Well, a lot of people argue where you work. You might be an engineer. Are you an engineer?

No?

But if an engineer is managing director of NTA or whatever it is, being an engineer is an advantage because even a cameraman comes and says his machine is damaged, you can say, let me see it. So, that’s the way I look at it.

So, did you make a living out of law?

I didn’t make a living out of law. Law is such an interesting subject. If you have knowledge of law, it doesn’t matter where you get your degree or what you do, except there’s no element of law in the way the establishments operate, you will find that you are able to cope.

And most of these professions, they have sections where you go and practice or offer legal advice. I do hope that you follow the way I am putting it.

One other aspect of your career is politics. Maybe the law dovetailed into politics, because in 1999 you joined politics and were in the PDP. Was it because most of the generals did same. Obasanjo led the team?

It is a very, very long story.

Yes, make it short?

I think, generally, all human beings, one way or the other, show interest in politics. When you show interest in where you come from, who you are, what you do, your relationship with other people, you apply politics. So, we are all politicians, but of different degrees.

But your level of politics in the PDP, I believe you were the chairman of the Constitution Drafting Committee. You are in the BoT, so that’s high-level engagement?

You are right.

You are not an accidental politician. You chose it deliberately. You did it at the highest level?

And I enjoyed it because I have left there. I did not stay long. Well, you know, government changes and we developed new people to take over.

So, first, I’m part of the military. One of the organisations that allow activities, once you do it within the rules, it is politics. And until recently, not too many people asked for that man’s qualification.

In politics?

If you can make noise, frighten people, you can drive away those who are intelligent, educated and well-qualified. And that is one of the problems of Nigerian politics; where you find that illiterates wanting to dictate to the literate persons.

So, tell me about your experience as a minister?

Being a minister really is just an office. It’s only here that people carry it on their heads to the extent that as if they are next to God. So, I saw being a minister as being called to duty. And if one is reasonable and understands, he should see that he is representing a large group of people as a minister.

So, it’s an opportunity really, which if people use very well, helps in the development of your environment.

Did you choose to  leave voluntarily because you served two years only?

Yes.

Did you get tired of it so quickly?

In a way, yes.

Why?

I don’t know.

Okay. I thought you didn’t get along with your commanding officer?

No.

Now, why did you not contest yourself? You were content to be appointed minister, but you didn’t try to be Governor of Kogi State?

I couldn’t have tried to be governor.

Why?

While in the military I didn’t want to be governor.

So, your experience of politics stopped at being minister of police?

It’s difficult to say that knowledge of the past or the particulars of it terminates as you stop. Whatever you learn in any given position will remain with you for life. And you either use it well or you don’t use it well.

But going back now to politics, appointment and so on, it’s very difficult to satisfy a large number of people. And so, for anybody in that position, it would be a good thing. I would advise him or her to have a plan, a personal plan to say this is how long I would stay in this place. He can even specify that it is either this happens or this doesn’t happen. If this happens I leave, if it doesn’t happen, I will stay like, a few months or a few years.

Do you remember when you stopped yourself or are you still active in politics?

No, I have never really been active in politics.

When did you stop being a member of the Board of Trustees of the PDP?

You don’t write application that you want to be a member. So also, you do not write that you want to leave.

You didn’t resign?

I heard they made me a member, and I think I appreciated it, but I never regarded it as my main or major convocation, because we discussed it, the formation, particularly the establishment of one of those things, who should be a member, who shouldn’t be a member, and so on.

So, what are your thoughts now when you see what is happening to the PDP? I don’t know if you follow the crisis going on?

To be honest I have not followed. But anytime I have an opportunity, I listen to news. Like yesterday, I think they were fighting…

Yes, they were fighting in the secretariat. I’m just wondering, as a former member of the Board of Trustees, what would you be feeling when you see this?

Nigeria is an interesting place. This is an interview. I wish to have an opportunity to talk outside the interview. A little thing in Nigeria we will expand it to a situation where you don’t believe, you can’t believe, that this is something you know about.

This Board of Trustees, they’ve messed it up, even early part of its establishment, some people used it to harass others. So, it’s almost lost its meaning. Maybe with time it develops again.

Like, of course, at one time we had Ekwueme, some good people I know. I can’t remember the names.

Adamu Ciroma?

Adamu Ciroma, yes.

So are you saying the problem now is because of bad people that are there?

Not bad people. I don’t know how best to describe it. I wish I’ve got the vocabulary to describe it.

Some people just want to have a feeling that they came, they went to the Board of Trustees meeting. But they have no clear idea. They didn’t, they wouldn’t have contributed. But they would go and sing, this is this, this is that.

So, they don’t consult you anymore on what is happening in the party? I think one of your neighbours here( Ikoyi, Lagos) is Bode George, he’s  still active in the Board of Trustees. A former soldier too?

I know.

Do you hear from him about what’s going on in the party?

I don’t. Look, even in the army, if you give me a job, I do the job and the moment I finish the job, I’m out. And there are some people there is not much I can learn from them, at best they can learn from me.

Let’s talk about your private life, because you keep saying you were a very active person in your younger days. How do you keep that sense of adventure and activeness as you grow older?

It’s not easy, but I’m trying.

What do you do to keep fit?

I play squash. Some people believe I am good in squash. I also do some trekking.

Do you still do adventures like travelling and going along?

No. Particularly with this kidnapping, I don’t travel.

Okay. Not necessarily here in Nigeria, whether you travel abroad. Do you still…?

No. I used to travel, but I had an accident. And since then, the tempo of my travels, my adventure, reduced.

I know the loss of your wife is a major one. Does that narrow your life?

That’s true. But the children are there, and this is one of them.

How many children do you have? You don’t count them?

No.

Maybe I should also ask about any other activity you do? I know when we grow older there isn’t much to do. But do you have any hobbies?

I don’t know whether I should say that my interest in farming is one of those things you consider, because even when I was still active in service, I used to farm. It didn’t work out well the way I wished. And one thing I enjoy, which has now gone down, is driving.

Driving?

Yes. Tell me to go to Kaduna now, I’m ready. But in recent times, when you grow old, and with these abductions, kidnappings, one has to be very careful.

Let me have your thoughts on Nigeria. When you mentioned kidnapping. The politics we see on TV. Do you, as somebody who has come a long way, are you optimistic about the country?

Honestly, I’m very disappointed and ashamed because of the role we played ourselves, by the position we placed ourselves in Nigeria, in the leadership of Africa.

I mean, when you hear Africa, you are always talking of West Africa. West Africa is in Africa.

I was just thinking that, maybe, what ought to have been done at the early part of some of these crises were not done because, if something ought to have been done today, to correct a situation and you leave it undone, by the time you come tomorrow, it may be such that it has become something you don’t even know what to talk about it.

But from what I read in the papers and hear on TV, maybe the government is taking the right actions, and then they should all unite, the politicians, unite and see that the danger being posed by insecurity is to the disadvantage of all of us and to the underdevelopment of the country.

But I don’t know how it could be done, to see that it is reduced. I think, when it started, exercising the political will was not there. If they had taken action at that time, we probably would not have gotten to where we are.

So, all I know is that I will join in the prayers that it will come down.

Nigeria was highly regarded long before now, but now I’m not too sure about the good reputation we had. It’s being destroyed.

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