ADC will not zone presidential ticket – El-Rufai

In this interview on Trust TV’s 30 Minutes, former Kaduna State governor and chieftain of the coalition-led African Democratic Congress (ADC), Malam Nasir El-Rufai, speaks on the party’s preparations for the 2027 general election, declaring that its presidential ticket will not be zoned. He also addresses the controversy surrounding the proposed amendment to the Electoral Act currently before the National Assembly, as well as his relationships with President Bola Ahmed Tinubu; and his successor, Governor Uba Sani, and other political issues.

You seem to have been quiet for some time, and I wonder what is happening, or is it that your party is still full of sound and fury, but yet to take shape?

No. Since my construction industry days, I always close down in December and parts of January. I usually take at least six weeks holiday every year, the only time I get a long break. 2025 has been a very stressful year for me personally. So, I decided to shut down at the end of November. I left the country, and my plan was to remain outside country until the end of January to take two months off. So that is why. But just as I was preparing to return, I got a mix of bacterial, viral, and malarial infections at the same time, which hospitalized me for five days. So, I had to get that out of the way before coming back.

But I’m fine now. I’m done. And very soon I’ll be on my way to Nigeria.

With the PDP in crisis, your party is now seen as the main opposition. Why does it appear unprepared, especially this close to an election, and lacking the confidence of a clear alternative government?

Yes, there is that concern. I can assure you, even within the party, we have these discussions, we’re worried about the silence on the part of the party, where we compare it with when we formed the APC, because I was there as the forefront, APC was firing on all cylinders the moment it was formed. But this party is not a coalition of several parties, it’s a coalition of individuals. So, it is taking time to settle, taking time to form. A lot of background work is being done. A lot of outreach at the grassroots is being done, which may not be in the media or may be visible to people. But I assure you, our party is the preferred party for Nigerians. We have carried out polls that show that very, very clearly and decisively. And the issues that we have about presidential candidates and so on, will all be resolved within the next few weeks. We have just launched membership registration that will go very smoothly.

As soon as we do that, we’ll do the conferences and conventions to replace the leadership that we inherited. And then the real party will come to the surface. I assure you that our party is working, it is organizing quietly, not like APC did noisily in 2014, but we are doing that. And I assure you that this Tinubu government will go back where it came from, whether it is Lagos or Lagoon Island or wherever, they will go back by the grace of God in 2027.

Optics and communication matter in politics. With public dissatisfaction over the current government, why hasn’t your party projected a clearer alternative, as the APC did in its early days?

The campaign timeline embedded in the 2022 Electoral Act is rather long. It favours the incumbent that has a lot of money. We are a coalition that is coming together. And unlike the sitting government, we are a coalition of the willing. And we don’t have the resources or even a fraction of the resources that they have. So, the kind of spending on media or social media and optics that you expect, you’ll not see from the ADC for now. But I assure you, as I said, we are approaching this from a different angle.

We have a different strategy. We are not going to do what is business as usual. But I assure you, we are organizing, we are planning, we are strategizing, and we are going to give Nigerians that credible alternative. We are going to offer Nigerians an ethical government. We’ll provide for them a manifesto that they can relate to, that works for the people. And by the grace of God, that energy, that momentum that you have been waiting for will happen within the next few weeks, by the grace of God.

But then how do you like mobilize people? How do you get people to begin to align with you when you are keeping things maybe close to your chest?

No, we are mobilizing. Most of the work being done. There is work being done on several layers. We are mobilizing very, very aggressively at the lowest levels, at the polling unit ward levels. Ask members of the National Assembly from the APC if they can visit their constituencies, only a few can visit their constituencies. And when they visit, they need crash helmets, because people are angry. They are going after them. That’s why many of them cannot go home for weekends or to their constituencies. We are mobilizing, the people are there, we have tapped into the dissatisfaction and the anger, we are mobilizing at that level.

And at the top level, we are preparing, we are on our manifesto on our platform. And we’re working on getting all our presidential aspirants, governorship aspirants and other aspirants to come together and agree to a consensus that will have free and fair primaries. We will not have zoning. We will not have any of that thing. No consensus, no forcing anyone to step down, everyone will be given the opportunity to contest and whoever wins will be supported by all.

This is what we’ve been working on on two layers that I can tell you about. But if you don’t think that the ADC has grassroots support, ask some of the National Assembly members to go to their constituency without a garrison of soldiers and police to guard them.

Are you now mobilising supporters in ways that could encourage violence against elected representatives?

No, we’re not. We’re not mobilizing people to be violent. We’re mobilizing people to ask questions. The members of the National Assembly have hefty salaries and allowances. They have constituency projects. What are they doing about them? Ask them simple questions. Why haven’t you come to your constituency since you went to Abuja two years ago? Those are the simple questions.

They are not violent. They are supposed to be civic discussions. But of course, when one side has armed policemen and so on, the other side has to protect itself. But no, we are mobilizing people. We’re tapping into the dissatisfaction, the incompetence, the false propaganda of this administration, and the extreme cronyism and tribalism that this administration has shown. We are tapping into that and we’re doing so quietly, silently, at the lowest levels of electoral significance. And APC is going to get the surprise of its life.

With many opposition governors defecting to the ruling party, isn’t it worrying that they now control most political structures while your party appears to lack similar leverage?

I think the governors are making two fundamental mistakes. The first on a spiritual level, those of us that are Muslims or Christians who believe that power comes from God, not from Tinubu, not from anybody. God gives power to whom he wants, when he wants and takes it away from him or her. So it is God that gave them power, but they have come to assume that it is APC and Tinubu and their regime that will give them power. That’s the fundamental mistake number one.

The second mistake is this thinking that, oh, we have resources, we have money, we have police, we have INEC, you know, and I’ve said this to Tinubu’s people, you know, ask Goodluck Jonathan what he didn’t have in 2014 when we organised and got him out. And thirdly, I was a governor, so I’m speaking from experience. As the governor of Kaduna state, I was a leading APC member. I fought very hard for my party to win every election at all levels. Tinubu lost, even though I’m one of his strong supporters. He didn’t win Kaduna. We lost three senate seats. We had two senate seats before we lost them. I was a sitting governor. I couldn’t prevent that. There is a difference between governors and the voters. The governor has only one vote. And when the time comes, the people of Nigeria will show. What is happening very clearly in my view, and we are encouraging them. Let all the governors move to APC. It’s very good because it defines clearly what 2027 is all about. It is those that have been stealing from Nigeria’s resources since 2023, versus the people of Nigeria, and we’ll see who will win. I have no doubt in my mind who will win. At the end of the day, the people of Nigeria will win.

How did your relationship with President Bola Tinubu break down, given your prominent role in backing his emergence as APC candidate?

I think it’s important to make this clarification. I like your question, because there is an assumption that I was ever Tinubu’s friend. I was not. We never got along with Tinubu. We never had a personal relationship. We never had a prior relationship like the one I had with General Buhari, of blessed memory. So I want everyone to understand that. For me, Tinubu was initially an aspirant of the party. And I was approached by certain Islamic stakeholders from the Southwest and asked to support the emergence of a Southwest Muslim presidential candidate.

That was how even the discussion started. And for me, as governor of Kaduna State, and as one of the founders of the APC, I knew that we had an understanding with the South, or specifically the Southwest, that after eight years of Buhari power will go to the South. It was a matter of principle I stood for that. It wasn’t about Tinubu. Tinubu just happened to be an extended beneficiary of that. Now, as soon as Tinubu won the primaries, it is a principle of mine, that I fight for the candidate of my party in every election to win, whether I like the candidate or not. It’s not whether I like Tinubu or not. The fact that he emerged as the candidate of the party, for me, I would give everything to ensure that he won. And that’s what I did.

Now, I don’t think we fell out with Tinubu. We just could not find areas of agreement. Okay, there was no equilibrium. We couldn’t agree. I’m a different kind of person. I am in government for different reasons. I am a public servant, and I believe that public service should be about delivery, about results and performance. It’s not about making money for yourself. It’s not about stealing. It’s not about appointing your cronies. It’s not about appointing your tribesmen and women. Even if the offer that Tinubu made to me, which he publicly appealed to me to take up to be a minister in his cabinet, even if that had gone through, I would have left the government long ago. Because the philosophy of this government is contrary to everything that I have been taught as a Muslim, as a northerner, as a Nigerian, to stand for public good.

These guys don’t care about public good. They didn’t come to govern. They came to enrich themselves, pure and simple. So, we are different people. So, it should not surprise anybody that knows me and knows Tinubu to see that we are parallel lines that will never meet.

You’ve been described as a godfather to the Kaduna governor, with whom you later fell out. How do you explain such breakdowns between political mentors and protégés?

He is not my godson.

Looking at the fallout between Rabiu Kwankwaso and Governor Abba Yusuf in Kano, why do godfather–godson relationships in Nigerian politics so often collapse?

Look, let me tell you something a former military president told me when he was in office. He said to me, you know, this thing called power is a very interesting thing. He said, even if your son gets to sit in this chair, and he showed me his chair in Dodan Barracks while he was sitting, he said, even if your own son, biological son gets to sit in this chair, the first day you come, he will come out as your son and kneel down and greet you. The second day, he will sit in his seat. The third day, if you don’t greet him respectfully, bad things can happen. This I learned in my 20s from a former president of Nigeria, a sitting president there.

So I have never believed in godfatherism. Never. And I was an outspoken opponent of it. I even went to Lagos, and I answered questions about godfatherism that led to attacks from Tinubu wolves, they went after me because they thought I was talking about him. But I was talking about a principle. When you have power, exercise it for public good.

When you’re done, leave. I want to challenge every Nigerian to go and check my record. When I left BPE, I did not even go back to visit there till after 23 years. And that was because I was doing a PhD research. I had to interview somebody in BPE. Since I left the FCT, I have never gone there to see anyone until my former classmate, Mohamed Musa Bello became minister, and he personally invited me to come.

When I do a job, I do it, I move on. I don’t care about my successor. I don’t want to control my successor. And if you look at many videos in Kaduna before I left office, I made it repeatedly clear to Uba Sani before his election and after that as soon as we get you elected, we hand over, I’m gone. I will not even visit Kaduna for the first six months to give you space to settle down and carry the burden of your office. I don’t want, I’m not interested in being a godfather. I don’t want to control anybody. I don’t care. Now, the cases of Kwankwaso and Tinubu and the governors in Lagos may be different.

But in the case of Kaduna, it was not a case of godfatherism. I was never there. I didn’t care what Uba Sani did after I left Kaduna. I’ve done my bit. Unless he calls me and asks me for advice or counsel, I told him I will never even call you. And I’ve never called Uba Sani since I left office. Never, not once. He is the one to call me if he wants to talk about anything. Other than that, I move on with my life.

I have enough things to keep me busy. I don’t need to be looking after someone that I have brought up.

Has Governor Sani been calling you?

I don’t even remember the last time he called me. It must have been more than two, closer to three years ago.

Would you say your relationship with him has broken down completely?

We have no relationship.

Given your experience, have you spoken with or advised Kwankwaso on managing his dispute with the Kano governor?

Look, context matters. I can relate to you about everything in Kaduna. I can give you the context. I can give you facts and figures. I don’t know what happened in Kano. I honestly don’t have access to both of them to ask them questions.

And even if I do, I frankly would not want to go into that. These things happened in politics. It’s normal. Don’t be surprised if a year from now they reconcile. These things happen, but I don’t think there are parallels between what happened in Kano with what happened in Kaduna. Because as I said, context matters. Every situation is different. And unless you have all the facts, you should be very slow in making judgments.

Some leaders of your party, including Peter Obi, joined a protest at the National Assembly over electronic transmission of results. Where do you stand on the issue?

It’s unfortunate I have not been able to return to Nigeria before today (Monday). I would have joined Mr. Peter Obi and other party leaders in protesting to the National Assembly to restore the real-time and mandatory transmission of results from the polling unit. It is the only way we can stop the manipulation that goes on in the collation centres. That is where the real rigging takes place. Rigging doesn’t take place in the polling unit. It is in the collation centres. And this provision, which has been passed by the House of Representatives, but sadly being frustrated by the Senate, would have improved the quality of our elections. But we all know why the ruling party and the sitting government doesn’t want that. Because they know they can’t win the elections. And the only way they have a fighting chance is to be able to manipulate the results after people have voted. So I would have joined them if I was in Abuja. I would have been with Mr. Peter Obi.

With the Senate leadership appearing entrenched and minority senators disputing what was passed, how do you see this dispute being resolved since the Senate itself says it is reconvening over the matter?

Well, I think the conference committee would make its recommendations first. I am confident, looking at the composition of the conference committee and the integrity of the majority of its members, they would recommend the restoration of the provision for the real-time transmission of results from the polling unit. So I think the conference committee will resolve this in favor of the people of Nigeria.

Because this is about the people of Nigeria. It’s really not about elections or about APC or ADC or any other party. It’s about giving Nigerians the opportunity to vote for whom they want.

And that result should not be subject to any manipulation. So I am confident that the conference committee will recommend restoration. Now, it is up to the Senate, well, particularly the Senate president, because I think majority of the Senators also want the same.

The majority of the Senators are gentlemen. They want Nigeria to move forward. They are distinguished former governors, former ministers, and former representatives.

They are distinguished people that want to see Nigeria make progress. And I think the Senate will overwhelmingly outvote their presiding officer. Because let’s be clear, it is not the Senator that is the problem.

Akpabio is the problem. That’s what’s going on. And the Senators will have to come together and protest and prevent that from happening when they reconvene.

You argue that the ruling party opposes electronic transmission because it fears losing elections. Given that the president must assent to the bill, how do you expect it to eventually become law?

Yes, what I said is absolutely right. And my sense is that when the National Assembly overrides Akpabio and includes this provision, the president may withhold assent in which case it will come back to the National Assembly for them to exercise their two-thirds override to override his veto. I think that will happen. Because I think the voice of Nigerians is very loud as far as the National Assembly members are concerned. And for their own self-preservation, they must preserve this provision for the real-time transmission of results from the polling unit using electronic means. It’s for their own survival. It’s for the survival of this democracy.

Given the National Assembly’s track record on contentious issues, why should Nigerians expect a different outcome on something as politically sensitive as election results?

Because we’re in election season. And two years ago, they can change the national anthem in five minutes. Last year, they can play games with the tax reform bills. But now they know that 2026 is there for preparing for elections, it is there, that candidates will emerge, and Nigerians are watching, and Nigerians are angry, and Nigerians will punish them if they go the way that Akpabio and Tinubu want. This is my hope. I am optimistic. I have confidence in the self-preservation instincts of the members of the National Assembly to do right for once in this last three or four years. This National Assembly will go down in history as one of the least performing unless they get this electoral bill done properly. And it affects them fundamentally, and they know it. They don’t want to be left to the mercy of governors and the president to decide who returns to the National Assembly or not. If you know that you are grounded, you have the support of your people, you will want to support this bill because you will win your elections at polling unit. You don’t want the president or Akpabio or anybody changing it at the ward or local government coalition centres. So, it’s a matter of self-preservation. That is why I’m hoping that they will do the right thing. But yes, people have the right to be pessimistic. But I am perpetually optimistic when it comes to Nigeria.

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